FRAPS and 64-Bit Game Clients...

Discussion in 'FRAPS Help Requests' started by Arel203, Dec 10, 2012.

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  1. Hi,

    I recently started getting into FRAPS and PC gaming again. And have encountered a bit of a fluke in a game I play, AION Online.

    The issue is, the game has 2 clients I can play on. 32-Bit and 64-Bit, the 64 seems to run better in massive-scale settings, and I prefer it much. However, graphically, they are both exactly the same, and framerate wise, they both sit at the game's FPS cap of around 65 (Don't ask, no idea)

    That being said, before the issue is written off as "Maybe the client despite cap, is barely at cap, while the other can exceed the cap significantly and thus recieves less of a, or no loss from FRAPS".

    My answer to that is, if anyone thinks that, every game I play, I can record at max FPS, including Battlefield 3, Crysis 2, Skyrim, etc, all on Ultra, all never moving from 60 FPS with no issues, My HD and CPU/GPU setup can both handle anything I throw at them.

    However, when running the 64-Bit client in AION, it drops significantly, down to as low as 22-25 FPS, generally sitting in the 40 FPS range though. The 32-Bit client, however, barely moves. Typically staying at 60 FPS, and dipping a bit more in massive-scale combat.

    So, my question is, IS the 64-Bit client really THAT much more taxing on FRAPS? Despite graphically, being 100% identical to the 32-Bit client? Or is there a known issue with FRAPS and 64-Bit programs?

    I provided screenshots showing the FPS difference in the exact same area of the game, with nothing CPU/GPU intensive going on.





    32-Bit Client:
    [​IMG]





    64-Bit Client:
    [​IMG]
     
    raffriff likes this.
  2. Thalmor Wizard

    Thalmor Wizard Moderator Staff Member Site Contributor

    The 64-bit client gives the program a lot of memory which may be causing you to actually run out for Fraps to work effectively. In the 32-bit client, the OS is automatically capping the amount of RAM it is allowed to use to 3GB because 32-bit only uses 3GB RAM by default. This is why you see no issues whatsoever recording on 32-bit clients but have many more issues in the 64-bit client: it's because of RAM allocation.
     
  3. I have 16 GB of 2400 DDR3 ram dual channeled and it isn't even exceeding 20% usage, CPU usage as well is barely going up. I'm confident that this is a design problem and not a hardware related problem. FRAPS would have to be attempting to use around 12-13 GB of ram for it to run out.
     
  4. Thalmor Wizard

    Thalmor Wizard Moderator Staff Member Site Contributor

    Your forgetting the game. CPU usage and RAM allocation are not related. The game could be asking for 10 - 12GB RAM and have a low CPU usage. Also, higher resolutions = more texture drawing = more intensive on the computer = more RAM required to keep a stable frame rate. If your so confident that this has nothing to do with your PC, then go and file a bug report with the developers of the game.
     
  5. The game isn't taking 12GB of RAM, I already stated that I monitored it.
     
  6. Thalmor Wizard

    Thalmor Wizard Moderator Staff Member Site Contributor

    I said "could", try reading what I said more carefully.
     
  7. Well thanks for your input, however, it is not useful. I stated on my second post, pretty clearly, and you're telling me to contact the developers of the game your next post, writing it off as the games' issue. Why don't you, try reading more carefully?

    Still looking for input or other experiences, I did do a few google searches that showed people having trouble with 64-Bit WoW and Crysis, but some people claimed they didn't have issues with the same client, so, trying to get to the bottom of this and will post updates as I learn more.
     
  8. Thalmor Wizard

    Thalmor Wizard Moderator Staff Member Site Contributor

    Because you said that you are confident there's nothing wrong with your hardware and that there is a problem with the game, hence contact the game developers. If your going to be evasive and not read what I say, then I'm out of this thread.
     
  9. "I have 16 GB of 2400 DDR3 ram dual channeled and it isn't even exceeding 20% usage"

    No idea what "evasive" you're refering to. I was clear with everything I typed. I'm not here to start a flame war but for someone going on about not reading when I've already cleared the game as the issue of memory and CPU bottlenecking, and recourses not being the problem, it's just ironic to hear you ramble and then get all offensive like FRAPS is your baby and you're protecting it from my problematic words.

    Moving on, I've found a thread online where people are saying FRAPS tries to record at an excessive, unnecessary bit-rate on 64-bit programs that causes it strain and FPS drops, and I did a quick test and have confirmed it, so i'll send an email directly to the developers of FRAPS. But if anyone finds a way around it, as it seems to not happen to everyone from what I'm reading, feel free to update.
     
  10. raffriff

    raffriff Moderator Staff Member Site Contributor

    I'd be interested in seeing that thread.

    Pretty sure higher bit-rate goes with the 64-bit territory. I suspect there may be a memory bus bandwidth issue as well, but can't find a citation at this time.
     
    Thalmor Wizard likes this.
  11. You can for sure test it yourself, FRAPS is recording visuals, not memory architecture. The resources are there, FRAPS attempts to record to the HD at a higher bitrate than 32bit despite exactly same visuals, far exceeding my raid setup performance, and thus giving me a lower framerate. And no, that isn't a 64-bit program's fault. It's just part of FRAPS design.

    Anyways, probably wont be checking this forum much after this post, unless I find a fix or other issue, already sent in evidence. Guess i'll use 32-bit until then.

    Try not to police threads and take offensive stances on such petty things would be my best advice for the future, this thread came off very anti-social as my first experience. lol...
     
  12. raffriff

    raffriff Moderator Staff Member Site Contributor

    The signal flow probably goes something like this: (I think I'm being conservative)
    GPU->PCIE->RAM (get a frame, uncompressed)
    RAM->PCIE->CPU (perform compression)
    CPU->PCIE->RAM (save compressed frame to memory)
    RAM->PCIE->SATA (save chunks of data to disk)
    As you see, the PCIE bus gets traversed multiple times for every frame. At some point it becomes a system bottleneck. I don't know if this is your problem; I am just mentioning it as a possibility.

    This has never been mentioned before AFAIK. Interesting if true. Will look into it.
     
    Thalmor Wizard likes this.
  13. ciarlo2006

    ciarlo2006 Site Contributor Well-Known Member

    Didn't anybody tell you it's not the size that counts, but how you use it? :D Ba dum chhhh.

    I believe there is a fair bit of mis-communication going on in this thread, so to straighten things up, I shall explain in layman's terms.

    Size does not equal the same as speed and available bandwidth. Everything has a choke point. You will most probably hit that when it comes to games and recording long before you hit 16GB.

    Now Fraps is not configured differently to run on x64 and x32 architecture. There is no coding difference. It is mearly made compatible so to speak.

    Explain to me, why there would be a need for it to run any differently and to effect a game in the way you seem to think?

    Fraps does not use over 3.2GB or memory. So, why?

    Fraps is mearly a controller, a simple circuitry telling your HDD to take down what is on your screen and nothing more. It is not there to effect your game, to control it's settings, to control your hardware even.

    I don't know why you are having to contemplate it being Fraps that is the culprid, but to put it simply, consult the creators of WoW or reconfigure your hardware :)

    Toodles.
     
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  14. raffriff

    raffriff Moderator Staff Member Site Contributor

    Admin has reminded me by PM about this thread:
    https://encodingtalk.com/threads/fraps-stutter-in-wow-w-dx11-only.1404/

    Fraps seems to have a bug with 64-bit Wow where "Lossless RGB" mode is forced ON, which doubles the bitrate. Maybe AION Online is the same.

    So it looks like you were probably right after all, Arel203. Sorry for the oversight. To verify, please post a FRAFS Avi Info or MediaInfo report on a 32-bit and a 64-bit video.

    I look forward to your follow up.
     
  15. ciarlo2006

    ciarlo2006 Site Contributor Well-Known Member

    This makes me feel quite dumb.
     
  16. Just happened to check this thread again, I was also informed of that bug, explains the extensive bit-rate so this must be it. I'll download a program to check and verify that it is the issue. Apparently it was fixed in DX11 with V 3.5.7 applications, but AION uses DX9 and thus the issue seems to persist. I have not found a way around it without an update to FRAPS so i've been using 32-Bit, my setup cannot handle that bit-rate at the moment :(

    However I did turn it on and noticed no decrease in FPS on 64-Bit but a comparable decrease in FPS on 32-Bit so even before using software to confirm i'm confident it's this issue.

    Perhaps there is a registry edit or something of the sort to force it off? I've just been waiting for an update, perhaps I will re-submit the inquiry so it is not overlooked.

    For the small minority that this effects; as of 3.5.9 it is not fixed, to those interested in knowing;

    Thank you again though, looking forward to an update.
     
    raffriff likes this.
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